Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
4:04 PM
Oh, sweetheart, you're just baiting yourself.
I don't doubt that there was foul play and clerical errors (the latter of which we already have evidence), but what I have come to accept is that the majority of America voted on basis of "moral/religious value".
And the majority of Americans, based on irrefutable fact, are Protestant Christians with strong moral upbringing.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
4:04 PM
I don't think he won by by the moral values vote. It was the bigotry under the disguise of moral values.
By 
, at
4:39 PM
Come on man, Let it go. If you want everyone to respect everyone else's opinion then you need to respect that some people dont agree with you and think Bush was the better choice over Kerry. Were they right? no. Are you right that Kerry is better? no. It's an opinion, there is no "right answer". So all the conservatives stop whining about the gay people who want to live there lives. All the liberals stop dismiss Bush supporters as stupid Rednecks and lets be freinds again. Come on America, hug a make up.
By , at
5:19 PM
Come on man, Let it go. If you want everyone to respect everyone else's opinion then you need to respect that some people dont agree with you and think Bush was the better choice over Kerry. Were they right? no. Are you right that Kerry is better? no. It's an opinion, there is no "right answer". So all the conservatives stop whining about the gay people who want to live there lives. All the liberals stop dismiss Bush supporters as stupid Rednecks and lets be freinds again. Come on America, hug and make up.
By , at
5:19 PM
Heh, what you Americans don't seem to realize is the fact that this is not about winning and losing. ALWAYS there has to be competition that you see first and not the bigger picture...
The fact however stands. Those of you who wanted a change let the others, who are bigots, marauders and cheaters, get away with this election. Before, when Bush won the victory by a few votes due to his cheating, I understood. You couldn't conceive of it actually happening in your country. That's why I was so CERTAIN that if it happened THIS year that you would think hard on how to prevent it.
But apparently you didn't. Instead of thinking REALLY hard in making this go fairly you apparently will continue to protest with words. You did that in the 2000 election. Did it help? Like hell...
The point is that if your words do not suffice then if you truly want to get something changed then DO something. ANYTHING that you believe will stir the shitstorm over at your country. But moping and complaining about rigged elections is NOT the answer. Hell your entire voting system is, forgive me in using this expression, of a lower value than crocodile piss. Electronic voting booths, that can easily be rigged with malfunctions to benefit a party, ballots that are in some places of ancient design and finally, of course, the fact that the TRUE power doesn't lie within the people, but within the governors of your states. Jesus Christ!
So...to sum up your voting system is, for a lack of a better word, crap. It allows so many loopholes that ALLOW this type of cheating. So if you want to prevent it, and prevent another jackass in swiping votes, then I suggest that you make a public outcry to reshape the voting system!
But whatever. I guess most of you will just go back to your couches and slack in front of the TV. You know, I caught the CNN "comforting message" for "blue democrats" and whilst listening to it I thought as if they were talking to little children in a manner of "Aw, cheer up people. After all it's just politics! Who cares if your country could reach the lowest level of hell?"
That's how they want you to feel about politics so that you don't get off your arses and DO something about it. Are you going to let them get away with it? If you do then please don't whine. But if you actually go out and actively do tonnes of stuff to make a change then whine to your hearts desire.
By , at
5:22 PM
Please. Bush stole the last election, but the people, the poor, quasi-retarded American people, elected him this time. We deserve everything we get in the next four years for not preventing this.
By , at
5:31 PM
Come on man, Let it go. If you want everyone to respect everyone else's opinion then you need to respect that some people dont agree with you and think Bush was the better choice over Kerry. Were they right? no. Are you right that Kerry is better? no. It's an opinion, there is no "right answer". So all the conservatives stop whining about the gay people who want to live there lives. All the liberals stop dismiss Bush supporters as stupid Rednecks and lets be freinds again. Come on America, hug a make up.*GASP!* Is that... intelligence? HERE?! Amazing...
By , at
5:38 PM
Ok, so an election is apparently now only a fair one only if the guy your rooting for wins? Riiiiiight.
By , at
5:54 PM
As Arnold Schwarzengerman would say, "QUIT WHINING!"
By , at
6:30 PM
This has been posted before, (on the front page, in fact) but apparently some folks haven't read it yet: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-36.htm
Please, please read the whole article before reaching a conclusion.
By , at
6:31 PM
Tensions seem to be running very high here in the Sore Thumbs board... political debate is good, but let's not stoop to cheap insults and name calling.
While I'm not an American, I did have a big stake in this election. So does everyone in the world. America's foreign policy determines to a very large extent what happens in the rest of the world.
Here's the rub: Your current President and administration seem determined to go to war on a fairly regular basis for rather questionable reasons and motives, and don't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks. I can't think of a single nation in the world who's populace are well disposed to the USA at the moment. (Out of interest, does this bother you?)
About four years ago I quite liked America as a country. I loved it's citizens; those I've had the pleasure to meet I have found highly intelligent and very interesting individuals.
But now, I just hate America. I find it terrifying. Don't get me wrong, I like your people, but as a nation, you're too disconcerting. I can see I'm being kind of hypocritical here, my country doesn't have a lily-white past either, no country does.
Today, I find America genuinely frightening. You have a self-confessed Cowboy for a president, who has little knowledge and education about the rest of the world, or for that matter, much knowledge about anything. Yet this man (and his advisors) are going to be making decisions which will affect the whole world. I really am genuinely scared.
You might find it interesting to know that a "cowboy" in my part of the world is somebody who is reckless, cuts corners, and does a shoddy job.
To quote one of your own: "...that dark, venal and incurably violent side of the American character almost every other country in the world has learned to fear and despise" - Hunter S. Thompson, 1972
By , at
6:33 PM
Okay, I would just like to say that I was/am a Kerry supporter. Do I disagree with almost everything Bush has done in office? Yes. I find the man morally bankrupt. Do I think Bush stole 2000. It's very possible. There is ample evidence in my opinion. You are entitled to disagree. But let's face it, Bush did win this election. Even with all those invalidated registations, he probably still would have won. Unless you can give me good evidence to support that he stole this one, too, I will continue to believe that. However, I will continue to express my disgust whenever possible. That's the great thing about Democracy. I can do that. I encourage everyone who feels like I do to make actual intellegent arguments against him and not pitch a hissy fit. That just lowers you down to almost Bill O'Reily level.
By , at
6:39 PM
I pulled these off another site, they're some quotes from posts over the last few days:
"Well, we're fucked, but what else is new.
I don't know what to say.
I don't know what to do."
"I hear Canada's nice this time of the year.."
"if you arent ready to fight back then fuck you motherfucker, this is the time to get involved in the struggle... against war, against imperialism, against corporate interests, against the electoral college. if you are clinging to a love of america that you learned in third grade, then you need to grow up and ralize that this system is fucked up and stacked against you. if you havent learned anything from your ill fated support of a pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-choice opposition candidate, then learn this: both parties are designed against you... there's no mileage in reformist politics... lesser evil is still evil."
"If democracy rocks so hard why does it make me want to cry?"
Indeed...
By , at
7:01 PM
There's been alot of talk about how everybody made the "moral" vote this year. In response to this, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to these:
http://www.meninhats.com/d/20040114.html
http://www.meninhats.com/d/20031210.html
By , at
7:14 PM
You ARE aware that not everyone takes an exit poll, and some people think of them as outright rude, or so I believe.
By , at
7:42 PM
I think he won legitemately. But I think he won because his people manipulated us with terror warnings, for one. Also, I think it helped that there were a lot of issues concerning morality. People want to live in a morally conscious country, and unfortunately the US is predominately Christian. Part of being moral is preventing gay marriage and abortions. Because the Republicans are mistakenly associated with high morality, it helped his campaign. We have seen this year that more than civil liberty, our country is concerned with traditional Christian morality.
Bush won legitemately. The sad thing, though, is what it says about our country and what we value.
I think it's just depressing.
-Cola
By , at
7:46 PM
I don't believe Bush won fair and square. I do know, that Kerry's stuck in a Catch 22. Should he choose to concede the election, he'll be mocked as a coward (my friends did this on Nov. 3), but if he pushes the election through the courts, he'll be mocked the same way Gore was 4 years ago.
So, no escaping mockery. Anyway, I've been speaking to a few of the misinformed over the past few days. Many honestly believed Kerry would take away their guns, and prevent them from hunting with the same guns they've ALWAYS hunted with. Other believed we'd need automatic weapons to defend ourselves from terrorists, who will apperantly be bringing their own guns via the same airlines where I, a 17 year old caucasian lifelong citizen of the United States, can't even get a scissors through airport security. I pointed out that, under current American law, they could buy American made guns sans background check or waiting period.
But I digress. Keep arguing.
Personally, Bush fought about as fair a fight as he could. The fact that the vast majority of our people were glad to get into this war after 9/11 and have fueled Bush's power is what saddens me.
I voted Kerry.
My state voted Kerry.
I don't care who runs the damned government.
Parties and polotics are so outdated anyone could have their personal views and validate being of either party easily.
What I wanted was a clean, timely finish to this insane war we are fighting, and a focus on increasing our people's awareness and understanding. I beleived Kerry might be able to do such, since Bush has failed to.
9/11 would not have been possible if the people on those planes had put up more of a fight. Some did, and I commend them. If I had been one of those on the planes used in the attack, I would like to think I would have fought back. And I would like to beleive that my fellow americans would have supported immediate defense of our nation.
Instead, american lives were wasted in an attack on our country. It is the blunt truth. They couldn't see past the need to preserve their own lives. And so not only they died, but people are still dieing over it.
Educate our people. Teach them how to defend themselves.
Remind them of what duty is.
Give them duties worth performing.
Hunting down those who attacked us was a worthy goal.
Our methods are what are severely lacking in righteousness.
Ends do not justify the means.
If they did.... Then those attacking us would be just as righteous as our own soldiers.
It is the ability to maintain morality while seeking justice that makes things right. We've become somewhat immoral.... and so, just like in previous crusades, our cause will likely never see justice done.
If there was one complaint I had about the canidates in this election, it would have to be the inference that Bush was placed in power by God. This to me is a sign of insanity. Did not the holy crusaders who marched on the muselims(sp) believe god wanted them to? The churches of that time supported their bloody campaing in which christians often slew christians, in the name of God. More recently, did not Hitler preach that he would lead his chosen people to their rightful place as rulers? Did he not tell them that they were divinely chosen and there for rightous in killing so many innocent people?
We don't need anyone mentioning God durring campainging. The office is not there to serve any church or individual's interests. It is there to protect our people from harm, and keep our government running smoothly. If it becomes common for presidents to use God's name to gain political favor, then how long will it be before other religions need to fear being outlawed or shunned?
Wouldn't it be nice if we could grown up past our differences instead of using them to win the majority?
By , at
7:48 PM
"Come on man, Let it go. If you want everyone to respect everyone else's opinion then you need to respect that some people dont agree with you and think Bush was the better choice over Kerry. Were they right? no. Are you right that Kerry is better? no. It's an opinion, there is no "right answer". So all the conservatives stop whining about the gay people who want to live there lives. All the liberals stop dismiss Bush supporters as stupid Rednecks and lets be freinds again. Come on America, hug a make up. "
I am with this person on all of this. I voted Bush. Yes, you may now proceed to call me names and mock me. BUT I do not think Kerry stepping down was cowardly. He came to the conclusion that he could not win, and maturely decided to step down rather than drag this out as with what happened in 2000. No sarcasm, I never liked the man more. I was impressed, and I liked what little I heard of his speach. So to whoever it was whose friends were calling this cowardly, slap them. They're cowards.
By , at
8:15 PM
Kerry stepped down for a reason.
After last election's fierce reactions, he needed to prevent a close election.
He couldn't risk winning or losing by a small majority, because it might trigger rioting.
People were upset about the last election. If they had strong reason to beleive that the election was in any way crooked this time, it could have torn the nation appart.
So he stepped down from the race, and disarmed any threat of riots or uprisings.Either way Bush would have won. This way, Kerry kept the nation from inflicting a great wound on itself, and handed Bush another chance at doing right by everyone.
By , at
8:29 PM
Let's get this out right now. I am a conservative, a religious person, and I do support Bush... to an extant.
I do beleive the man has straight morals. I beleive Kerry is not a Catholic. His veiw of what is right is screwed up. But I don't beleive Bush has done the right thing in war and some things like that, but Kerry would only make our society more fallen apart and decadent, and we do need some good morals in our society like it or not. The fact is Bush IS in so maybe this country isn't blinded by the liberal elite media as I had thought. Basically, It came down for me that I agreed with Bush more than I agreed with Kerry after seriously looking into both of them.
We can't allow the murder of innocent children at this alarming rate, not to mention that depopulation is hurting the world's econemy. If any pro-abortionists can scientifically determine what makes killing a child before birth okay and killing a dependent up to the age of 7 muder explain that.And if you any of you knew womens right activists what really went on in the abortion industry you would want it should down for the care of the patients. I know from experience.
By , at
9:01 PM
Brilliant "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians" reference.
^-^ "Hooray for Santy Claus!"
~Phil
By , at
9:13 PM
I give. This comic has gone downhill way too fast, it started out as alright satire but it's just turned into some sad pity party... ah well.
By , at
9:46 PM
@ Anonymous, at 8:29 PM
"If any pro-abortionists can scientifically determine what makes killing a child before birth okay and killing a dependent up to the age of 7 muder explain that."
It's really quite simple.
Due to complications during pregnancy, an unborn fetus could pose a serious and direct threat to the health of it's mother, not only endangering her life but also by extension it's own. A dependant up to the age of 7 no longer poses such a threat.
Please note that Bush's anti-abortion policies make no allowances for cases in which the life of the mother is at stake.
One could also make the argument that an unborn fetus is not it's own seperate living entity (and thus is not protected by law) until it has been successfully birthed. Until that time, it could be percieved as nothing more than a parasitical organism.
And if you're going to make the case that abortion is wrong at any point during conception, where do you draw the line? Is the 6th month too late for an abortion? How about the 3rd month? The 1st month? Before the cell has divided x number of times? The moment that the sperm makes contact with the egg? Hell, why not just go all the way and ban masturbation? How dare those sick bastards murder all those poor potential babies!?
By , at
10:12 PM
All I have to say is: You people who are amazed that Bush won are simply fooling yourselves. Kerry hardly told us what he was going to do, and let's face it, people aren't going to follow someone they can't predict. We can predict quite well what Bush is going to do, while with Kerry, a flip-flopping lawyer, we can't tell shit.
By , at
10:23 PM
Two words I never want to hear again when discussing politics: "Catholic" and "Flip Flopper". Sorry to break it to you tards, but invoking subjective morals and spewing catch-phrases does not count as thinking. Come one, people, get your heads out of your collective asses and think about what you're saying!
I personally would like to know how many abortions are done for lifethreatening reasons and how many are done as a cheap way out of being responsible for a new life.
By , at
10:58 PM
It really doesn't matter now if Kerry would have won, Bush will remain in office, god help us. I pray, honestly pray, that he does right by us. With both a republican Congress AND Senate, he could push through some amazing things. And then of course he could just fuck it up. WHen I heard that because 11 states pushed through the anti-gay ban and that this may help put a similar ban as a amendment to the Constitution, I wanted to cry. When I look at the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights, I feel proud at what our forefathers concieved. Each amendment furthers the cause of liberty, each one is a step towards progress. Now they want to place what is quite possibly the biggest step backwards for civil rights in decades smack dab in the middle. I have a request, when/if the anti-marriage ban goes through, could they place it somewhere between the 13th and 19th amendments, so that people can see how we abolished slavery and granted women the right to vote, but will prevent certain people from having a happy marriage.
Ok, was anyone actually surprised when Bush won Ohio? It was one of the states that voted for banning gay marriage for christ sakes!
As to voting a president based on morality, why is that a surprise? Look at what happened with the whole Clinton/Monica thing. People went insane! I'm sorry but being Christian, people assume (incorrectly at times) that the person has a basic set of values. Morals are important, I don't care what you say. Some things are not right. And if the majority wants a man with morals and an religion, deal with it. Its called democracy, and guess what, thats what the majority want. We still have a constitution and that won't change. You will not lose your rights. Gays may not achieve the ones they wanted, but this isn't anything ethnic people or women didn't go through and overcome. Push on, for God's sake don't give up if you think its right. But don't bitch about losing in a democracy or you're being a hypocrit.
As to the war, there is not one person that has been up for election; Gore or Kerry, that wouldn't have gone to war. The only thing they disagree with is how they would have gone about it. They, and I, wish that Bush had had a plan for after winning and waited for more intelligence. However, Kerry himself has said and implied he would have gone to war as well. Atleast with Bush he's already got experience dealing with this stuff. Doubt not, the country will still be around in 4 years.
And by the way, I'm a christian that voted for Kerry so don't get me wrong. I dislike Bush. But I'm not a freaking whiner and this country has to push on together.
By , at
1:34 AM
On the subject of abortion I suggest that everyone read this: http://www.squidi.net/blog/04.11/05.php
Also of interest is this: http://randomfoo.net/junk/200410/what_barry_says.mov
and this: http://www.newamericancentury.org/
I am still in a state of disbelief that Bush won after the mess he has made of your country in the last four years. I am also very afraid of what may happen in the future.
By , at
1:37 AM
One: You mock us for "protest with words"? Would you prefer we stake a coup d'etat? How utterly moronic. You claim our country to be lazy and uninspired when we had record voting turnout this year to do what our legal system allos us to do: attempt to vote Bush or Kerry away from the system. Honestly, get informed and stop being such a hypocritical bigot.
Two, to anon 9:01: How can you claim that Kerry is not Catholic. He's said he is, he was raised Catholic, and he holds and votes with traditional Roman Catholic values (as can be said for Bush's claims), so what kind of idiotic statement is that?
And besides, who are you to judge what is right and wrong? I'm going to make an educated guess and assume that you are either devout Protestant or Catholic Christian, and that you follow the Holy Bible's teachings. You do realize, then, that it Bible explicitly states that God looks down on both those practice religion in public and those who judge.
And for the record, just to clear things up, this country does not operate on religion to begin with. It's that lovely "separation of church and state". If you don't like gay people on religious grounds, too bad. You can hold that opinion privately, but according to our great nation's legal system the law is under no obligation to cater to your beliefs.
Furthermore, on a more personal note, do you (as a whole) honestly think you understand the essence that is your God? That your God lives by the same moral standards you do?
God created sin, anything that exists does so because he willed it to. To think otherwise is to go against the knowledge beaten into your head since childhood that God is all-powerful and, more importantly, infallible.
I am not going to spark an argument, but rather I ask you all to analyze yourselves and look for flaws in your logic. Doubt yourself, and question everything.
Please.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
1:48 AM
---Quote:-----------
If any pro-abortionists can scientifically determine what makes killing a child before birth okay and killing a dependent up to the age of 7 muder explain that.
--------------------
Well, I'm a pro-abortionist, and I will try to answer your question.
I don't think about laws in the terms of "right" and "wrong", but rather in the terms of which kind of society they create and whether I would like to live in that society or not. In a society were abortion is legal, women have a larger amount of freedom to choose over their own life. If I was a woman, I would like to have that kind of freedom. I am of course talking about such things as women getting pregnant after a rape - in this scenario, the benefits of abortion should be apparent to anyone - but also less dramatic mess-ups, like the fourteen-year-old girl having sex with her boyfriend, and in the heat of passion they both forget to use a condom. I would like to live in a society were fourteen year old girls can have spontaneous sex with their boyfriends without having to worry about their lives drastically changing.
So, how can a fourteen year old girl's right to frivolous sex be more important than an unborn foetuses right to life? Is their any moral justification to this? Well, I guess not. Does that make me evil? Not necessarily. I don't believe in good or evil. I believe that each man's actions are geared solely towards his own gain. Therefore, I don't feel the need to justify my beliefs based on morality, because I think that all people are equally amoral when it comes down to the decisions they make, whether it's about abortion or something else. Instead, as I said before, I justify my beliefs based on the fact that they represent a society in which I would like to live, and as I can sympathize more with fourteen-year-old girls than with unborn featuses, I'm pro-abortion.
Of course, my way of looking at it is probably in no way representative for the pro-abortion community as a whole.
By , at
2:45 AM
As a forigner, I'm not really in a position to say much here, but I'll say this:
I am scared of your country. I am scared of what it'll do to the rest of the world.
I'm not going to bother repeating what someone else has has already said, but I agree with Anonymous, 6:33PM
By , at
2:55 AM
------------------------
Its called democracy, and guess what, thats what the majority want. /.../ Gays may not achieve the ones they wanted
------------------------
Man, you REALLY don't get it! Democarcy isn't simply "everyone votes, and then we'll see what opinion gets the most votes". Democracy is a package deal. It comes with the right to vote, with freedom of speach, with religious freedom, and with minority rights. Yes, you read right. Minority rights. Like gay people's right to get married. All these things are needed to form a democracy. It's not a democracy if the citizenry votes on the "dictatorship-party", or to get rid of freedom of speach, or to inhibit gay people (or black people, or hindu people or whatever) from getting married. If it was, the concept of "democracy" would be totally worthless.
By , at
2:58 AM
Democracy!?!?! Sometimes it can be right and sometimes it can be seen as wrong. Lots of people were for slavery and for segregation. Yet these things which if I am not mistaken some people saw as their right under their Christian beliefs were later seen as evil under the majority.
To those foreigners that have a problem with our system and voter fraud. First of all voter fraud happens everywhere and is nothing new to this country. Also its a matter of perspective the electoral college is strange but then again I find the idea of voting for parties and candidates, but I realize that this is your system not perfect but it works for you. The US isn't perfect but like every other country were trying to get our problems sorted out maybe it takes every 4 years to bring certain issues to light but were on our way hopefully we will.
By , at
3:19 AM
And while you are all understandably upset because your Presidential choice didn't win...terrorists are plotting their next attack on America and any other country that is friendly towards the USA. We should put this election behind us and move on. Defeat terrorism. Know your neighbors. Stop sitting in front of the television watching "Wife Swap," "Fear Factor," "Big Fat Obnoxious Husband," etc. and go for a walk and meet people.
If you're gay..be very gay, but don't necessarily be a radical. Everyone in America doesn't hate you, they just don't understand you. Great strides have been made here in the last fifty years to accept you for who you are. Be proud of that fact. Unfortunately it is also you that has to convince everyone else that you are just like everyone else...a human with the right to live as you choose. Instead of going to a gay bar to hang with like-minded people, go to a family restarant and invite a hetro friend. Win people over with your normalness.
By , at
4:59 AM
http://dispatch.com/election/election-president.php?story=dispatch/2004/11/05/20041105-A6-01.html
http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_article.asp?id=/global_feeds/canadianpress/worldnews/w110474A.htm
http://blackboxvoting.org
By , at
5:32 AM
-----------------------------
Win people over with your normalness.
-----------------------------
Lame! You shouldn't HAVE to be "normal" to be accepted in a free society!
By , at
5:43 AM
About abortion: To those of you who say you voted for Bush because of your anti-abortion feelings--that's too bad, because although Bush may give the issue lip service, as a politician, he's not going to do anything about it. Considering the fact that once some of the Supreme Court Justices conk off, he'll have his chance to let Republicans control all three branches of government, he could easily get Roe v. Wade overturned. But he won't. Why? Abortion is a wedge issue and serves the politicians better as a dividing issue than as a resolved issue (Hey, it got you to vote for him, didn't it? And my church's support in a "we're not going to tell you who to vote for but *wink wink nudge nudge* read this letter from the bishop which says while we don't like abortion and the death penality, please keep in mind we don't like abortion more" way).
By , at
5:53 AM
This has nothing to do with Kerry or Bush, but the war on terror is a farce. No one is anymore or any less safer than what they were before 9/11 nor is there anything that can really be done to prevent it. The fact of the matter is that there will always be people who dislike what's going on then they combine that with their own life being shit and not caring about other people's lives. If it's not Muslim extremist it's someone else.
The war on terror is just like the war on drugs and it will be a failure in exctually the same way, but a success for governments because it will take way more rights. Don't worry if you don't agree with me, because soon enough I won't be able to say it anymore.
-Gabe
By , at
6:23 AM
lol, i like my use of "any more or any less safer..." mmm sweet delicious redundancy
By , at
6:25 AM
To whoever said Kerry was 100% bona fide Christian, be advised - the man is either one quarter or one half Jewish. I'm actually not surprised that you guys don't know it, because I (living in Oz, where EVERYTHING is 6 months late =P) only found out about it in this teensy-weensy little newspaper article about how a Jewish community in some Euro country was getting all proud about it because he had roots from there. What's more, the bastard was very happy to conceal this and say what a good, 100% Christian he is UNTIL this was revealed, after which he was all 'oh yeah, but I'm proud of that too (now that it's in the open)'. Personally, I reckon you're underhanded if you go out of your way to hide your roots like that, and if you're actually not proud of who you are, you're too stupid to live. Go Bush.
On a related note, I find it very sad how the author of this comic can go into such a hissy-fit-tantrum just 'cause Kerry lost. How much sympathy, I wonder, would he have for Bush if Kerry had won, by cheating or otherwise? You backed the wrong horse, bud. Build a bridge and get over it.
By , at
7:05 AM
The Democrats lost this election for two reasons:
1) The wrong candidate. There is a reason successful presidential candidates are almost exclusively governors, not senators. A senator often has to make decisions that result in a spotty, even contradictory voting record. The reasons behind these seemingly contradictory votes while quite valid, also tend to be much too complex to easily explain during a TV debate, which means they turn into a noose for any candidate forced to defend his record during a presidential campaign. That said even for a senator Kerry was a bad choice. His voting record on defense issues _sucked_, which didn't matter as long as he ran for senator in an essentially mono-party state, but was the kiss of death when trying for the White House while the country is defacto at war. Add to that being caught in some whoppers regarding his military service a lot of people who were fed up with the Shrub decided to go with the devil they knew as the lesser evil. Hillary would have mopped the floor with Dubya, it took Kerry to loose this one.
2) Guns, god and gays. It may not be nice, it may not be PC, but the simple fact of the matter is, that the majority of americans away from the coasts has rather conservative views on these issues, and fears the Democrats would try to force their values on them. There is a major disconnect between the bicostal elites which control the Democratic party and the populace of the Mid-US. For years now the Democrats have tried to sway these voters with economic arguments/promises in the hopes it would make them swallow the significant difference in social values. The reason this strategy has failed and will continue to fail is, that the people in that part of the country believe that both parties are owned by big business (quite rightly so. The Republcans are thoroughly in the pocket of K street and Wall street, while the Democrats dance to the trial lawyers' and civil service unions' tune), and since they'll get screwed either way feel free to vote culture.
By , at
8:00 AM
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"To those foreigners that have a problem with our system and voter fraud. First of all voter fraud happens everywhere and is nothing new to this country. Also its a matter of perspective the electoral college is strange but then again I find the idea of voting for parties and candidates, but I realize that this is your system not perfect but it works for you. The US isn't perfect but like every other country were trying to get our problems sorted out maybe it takes every 4 years to bring certain issues to light but were on our way hopefully we will."
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Yes, you're right, good point. But that wasn't what I was talking about. Your voting system may have flaws, but that wasn't the point I was making.
What I was saying was that the whole world is terrified of America because it has a President who I'd put money on the fact is going to screw over the rest of the world, one way or the other. Just look at how most countries viewed America 4 years ago, and look at how we view you now. These days, you just seem scary.
Bush may be the right President for America. Maybe, I don't know, I'm not an American.
But I can tell you he is not the right person to be a world leader. He's not a good person to have in charge of one of the most powerful countries in the world right now, when everyone is so suspicious and nervous of everyone else.
He may do a lot of good for your country. I doubt it, but he may. But I'm 99.9% certain he will do alot of bad to the rest of the world.
Does this bother you? Did you consider this when voting?
By , at
8:05 AM
“Ok, here goes nothing.” – Sean, author
First off I am going to state that I am a conservative. I voted for Bush, and although Vermont (my state) went the other way, I am glad that I exercised my right as an American and went out to vote. Although I told myself that I would stick to reading the comic (which I like), and ignore the news section (which expresses views I really DON’T like), I can’t resist scrolling down and catching the Sore Thumbs news every so often. And when I saw this particular post, I just had to read the comments people had left behind. After physically forcing myself to read every single comment, even though almost all of them made me want to find the author and scream at them, I decided that someone had to post an alternative viewpoint here.
Now, you can read what I’ve got to say or ignore it – your choice. But no matter what you believe, you should always expose yourself to opposing viewpoints, if for no other reason than to see how wrong they are. Who knows…I might even be able to persuade someone reading this to change their political views. (Wishful thinking, I know, but I’m like that.)
Now, to get to the point. Lots of folks have raised a number of issues in this blog, and it is my intent to respond to those about which I have an intelligently formed opinion. I won’t address abortion or gay marriage because I don’t even know where I stand on those yet. Give me a couple years and I’ll get back to you about it. I’ll start with some minor pet peeves and end with the election results.
1) I would like to start off saying that I find poor grammar and spelling in ANY textual situation such as this a good reason to ignore what someone is saying. If you can’t take the trouble to write well, I must question whether you have a valid opinion to express, or if you’re merely spouting the nonsense that someone else has put in your mouth.
I can see that some folk who have responded are foreigners and most likely are not native English speakers. In those cases I have made an exception because even for native speakers like me English is sometimes a hard language to work with.
(To prevent cries of “hypocrite” I want everyone to know that I check my writing for the mistakes I am reviling. I am not perfect, however, and I may miss a few misspelled words or comma splices. In such cases, I must beg your forgiveness.)
2) Next, I would like to respond to the foreigners who have expressed fear of America.
After looking over the rest of the opinions from foreigners who say they fear America, I found this sentiment best expressed the reason behind their fear:
“Your current President and administration seem determined to go to war on a fairly regular basis for rather questionable reasons and motives…”
To begin, I would like to quote the Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed…with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”
These sentiments are at the core of American values. What do they have to do with people from other countries? Everything. The Declaration doesn’t say that all AMERICANS are created equal. It says that ALL MEN are. This includes everyone that isn’t American as well. The president is aware of this, and his foreign policy reflects that conviction. In his efforts against Afghanistan and Iraq he has implemented the ideal that no one should have those rights taken away from them. In both those countries the people had suffered a long train of abuses of their rights from despotic leadership. I don’t know about you, but I find the relief of suffering to be a very worthy reason for going to war.
I am also quite aware that the stated reason for the incursion into Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction and had to be prevented from using them. I also know that we found no evidence that any such weapons existed. Some people say that because of this, we should never have gotten involved in Iraq in the first place. I agree that we should not have gone in on that particular premise, but it is my opinion that weapons or no the tyranny of Saddam Hussein had to be ended.
To any foreigners: Are you a country that routinely and consciously violates your peoples’ rights as human beings? Is their every day filled with the fear that they may be harmed or imprisoned for expressing a sentiment opposed to the government’s? If not, then the fear you feel of America is completely unfounded. We aren’t out there looking to kill anyone who isn’t one of us. We are merely attempting to spread the freedom that is the foundation of our nation to those who do not have it.
3) To continue, I’ll discuss the disappointing anti-American sentiment I’ve read here. For example:
“if you are clinging to a love of america that you learned in third grade, then you need to grow up and ralize that this system is fucked up and stacked against you. if you havent learned anything from your ill fated support of a pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-choice opposition candidate, then learn this: both parties are designed against you...”
This was cut and pasted from yet another site, and from his comments, I would assume that the one who posted it agreed with what was being said. Setting aside the horrible grammar and spelling, and ignoring the use of obscenities (the crutch of the inarticulate), one is left with the some very ignorant remarks here.
For me, my love of America, though originating when I was younger, has grown over the years. I may have “learned [it] in third grade”, but as I grew older and became able to understand and appreciate the many good things about our country – the many freedoms we enjoy, the self-governance that we work to preserve, our rights to express our opinions without fear of retribution – my pride in the United States of America has grown. It may have begun with a kind of indoctrination, but ever since I became able to form and consider my own opinions, I have been able to determine my own feelings on the matter, not just repeat what other people have said.
One must also consider the original author’s assertion that political parties are designed against the American people. This concept is both ludicrous and self-defeating. The idea of any group forming to work against the beliefs of its members is oxymoronic to say the least. The reason for the formation of political parties is because a number of like-minded individuals wish to promote the propagation of the ideals that they hold in common. There are certain views that conservatives hold in common and certain views that liberals hold in common, and each has formed a political party to try and persuade the rest of the country to believe the same.
I believe that the rational debate of these differences in an effort to find which view will benefit America more is the strongest aspect of our country, and as such it makes me proud to say that I am an American.
4) Last, but certainly not least, I intend to address the sentiment expressed in the comment that started all this debate.
“Any person who seriously believes without a doubt that Bush won THIS election fair and square, despite the FACT that he blatantly cheated in order to narrowly win the LAST election and that 2004 exit polls strongly pointed to a Kerry victory, is a DAMNED FOOL”
As for the first portion of the message, that Bush stole the 2000 election, I would like to say that I haven’t read enough about it to have a relevant opinion. I don’t know much about the situation, so I won’t say one way or another whether I believe that assertion is a fact or not. What I do know, though, is that the presidential election of 2000 has been over for four years. Whether you think he deserved it or not, Bush got the White House and has served his first term as president. A whole new election has come around and people are still complaining about what happened in the last one like their complaints will change history and Gore will all of a sudden magically be the president. My advice: get over it. There is NOTHING that can be done about the 2000 presidential election, no matter how much you like or dislike the results. So set it aside and MOVE ON.
Concerning the exit polls, and how they seemed to indicate a Kerry victory, I will state that no matter what exit polls say they do not determine who will be the next president. That is the job of the Electoral College, and through them the American voting public. An exit poll is a statistic. As any student who has ever taken a statistics course knows, statistics can easily be manipulated, through choosing the correct sample, into saying what you want them to; not to mention the fact that statistics such as exit polls are dependent on voluntary participation. If the only people who talked to the pollsters were those who voted for Kerry, then it is quite clear why he would be favored by the exit polls. But as I said before, the exit polls have no affect on who is elected president. They are merely a way for news organizations to predict what will happen so they can inform the public without having to wait for days or even weeks to see what the ballots say. As one can find at http://www.foxnews.com, the exit polls were quickly dismissed as useless when precinct reports began coming in and the REAL numbers proved to be quite different from the polled ones. Much as some people would like to believe them, the exit polls are wrong, and anyone who thinks that Kerry deserved to win because the EXIT POLLS said he was winning has to get the bolts in his neck tightened.
********
Well, there's my view. There are a number of other things I was indignant at in the other posts I read, but I won't waste any more of your time. - Sean
By , at
8:24 AM
Sorry about the problems with the previous post...seems the blog has problems with quotation marks...
Ah well, them's the breaks.
-Sean
By , at
8:33 AM
You think that everyone is a damn fool for voting for Bush, but you can't seem to realize that there are other people in this country that don't live on the internet and make fun of him. If you say that Bush stole this election, then you are the damned fool. He got more votes, that's all there is to it. "Strongly pointed to a Kerry victory" eh? Someone should have told Kerry that before he gave up and admitted he lost.
By , at
8:49 AM
I will say several things.
1: Morality is subjective.
2: Democracy is obviously not perfect. What you have to fear from Democracy, above all else, is a tyranny of the masses. When the majority seek to enforce their views on others, neither morality nor law matters. I am in no way saying that Bush or Kerry or Christians or Liberals practice or intend this. The part of Democracy that is important, the part that truly matters, is our ability to freely practice what we believe. If ever the majority force their views on the minority, it stops being a democracy. We have a set of values, laid down in the constitution, to insure that we have basic rights...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are the only three that truly matter, at least in my perspective(relative). Life, your right to exist and allow others the same. Liberty, your right to be free, both of physical and social tyranny. Pursuit of happiness, the right to enjoy yourself and do as you please, as long as it does not interefere with others three primary rights.
3: Argue your moral codes and sets of values elsewhere. Moral relativism. Hitler believed it was moral to slaughter Jews. The Christian Church believed it was moral to send children crusading. Pagans believe it moral to sacrifice living things. Your so-called terrorists believe it moral and just to use guerilla tactics to kill Americans. Were any of those actions right? Yes. They all were. Whatever you may believe, terrorists aren't evil. Abortions aren't evil. Hitler wasn't evil. They were all right. Right now we are "right", to invade a foreign country and slaughter their defenders, capture their leader and impose our will upon it. Are we right? Yes. Are they right? Yes.
4:The War on Terror. The only thing I can and will say about this misbegotten venture. What does Iraq have to do with it? More importantly, what do the Iraqi peoples beliefs about their government and lifestyle have to do with it?
5: Finally, any arguments you may have, relating to my words, which are not inherently right, or anyone elses, should be intelligent and rational. To insult someone else or their views and ideals only belittles yourself and ensures that you will never be taken seriously. I, as I would hope most people do, completely ignore any posts that are just degenerate insults and raving. If you wish to be heard, have something to say.
I will stop there, its already quite enough. I will not say here what I personally believe, nor do I care what you believe. I will however, listen to any arguments impassively. I welcome them. I also apologize for the massive amount of reading I posted. Finally, I am in no way insulting any of you, or saying you are wrong. I have seen many good, logical arguments here. I merely attempt to help any who are willing to open their minds, even if just but a little.
By , at
8:50 AM
Bleh. Too many comments to read them all.
Look, I'm the (attempted) founder of the neutralist party. What does that mean? I support checks and balances. The republicans control the senate and the house of representatives, and Bush is likely going to be able to control the Supreme court soon as well. So, as a neutralist, I think that's bad.
But by the same token, I'm reminded that there have been plenty of democratic presidents that had a similar level of power (though I don't think it was QUITE as extreme), and the world never blew up then. Is it possible that Bush is going to somehow universally fuck over the world? Yes. But is it likely? No. While many americans are "idiots," the stereotype that they're TOTAL idiots is a bit exagurated. Bush doesn't want world devastation any more than anyone else, and he's no more stubborn than the rest of the world. My general belief is that in four more years, he'll be the republican equivalence of Clinton. Then Hillary will run for president, and then after 8 years of her, we'll have 4 years of Jeb, then after that we'll have 4 years of the secret hidden Clinton. It'll be a Clinton Bush battle of dynasties for the next two centuries!
Okay, so, I don't really believe that, but it would be an interesting parralel. Man I misspelled that. My personal hope is that the 2008 election shall be between Libramen/JON STEWART and McCain/Colin Powell. The republican party needs to lose power, and the easiest way of doing that seems to be for the more moderate republicans (yes you fun-fact-filled left winged liberals: there are some of them) breaking off from the main party; problem is, McCain rightly supported Bush because if he didn't, he'd be vaporized. As for Colin Powell? He needs a hug.
So why Libramen/Stewart ticket on the Democratic side? Good question. Libramen is certainly not on the far left wing (hell, Stewart seems to think he's a Jewish republican), which like it or not is good. Much of the "You're a redneck; we're right your wrong" elitism is turning off the undecided voters. Try a little reverse psychology and it'll go a long way. So why Stewart for VP? Because I think he's an enourmously intelligent guy, he's liberal but not bound by party lines, he's a celebrity, he doesn't have the BALLS to run for president, and I need him off The Daily Show for my twisted dream of stealing the posistion of Anchor from him. Yes... The Daily Show with Tom Barry. Or will I have to change my last name to some porno name? Tom Bliztkrieg or something? Anchors always have snappy last names...
Anyway, I doubt Bush played entirely fair and square, but in this case, I don't think that that was what changed the outcome. And if it WAS what changed the outcome, then Bush probably payed Kerry off to shut up about it: four years ago, the country hated Gore for being a sore loser, even when he was right. Kerry didn't go after that path, but the reasons why may be hidden. Then again, I'm listening to a Seventh Guest remix song, and it's scary, so perhaps I'm coming up with conspiracy theories.
Anyway, join the Neutralist party everyone! We need a web site designer and a PR person. C'mon! Great Agenda! Right?
My gods I hope that the name "neutralist party" hasn't already been taken by someone...
email: ao8626@wayne.edu Virus TASTIC!
By , at
9:04 AM
@ Anonymous, at 8:24 AM
"1) I would like to start off saying that I find poor grammar and spelling in ANY textual situation such as this a good reason to ignore what someone is saying. If you can't take the trouble to write well, I must question whether you have a valid opinion to express, or if you're merely spouting the nonsense that someone else has put in your mouth."
So you find poor spelling and grammar reason to ignore someone's views and yet support a President who routinely bungles the English lanuage and who admits to being less than adept in his speech?
"These sentiments are at the core of American values. What do they have to do with people from other countries? Everything. The Declaration doesn’t say that all AMERICANS are created equal. It says that ALL MEN are. This includes everyone that isn’t American as well. The president is aware of this, and his foreign policy reflects that conviction. In his efforts against Afghanistan and Iraq he has implemented the ideal that no one should have those rights taken away from them. In both those countries the people had suffered a long train of abuses of their rights from despotic leadership. I don’t know about you, but I find the relief of suffering to be a very worthy reason for going to war."
So you say, and yet you support an administration that is responsible for the Patriot Act which permits innocent people to be imprisoned indefinately without charge or trial if they are deemed to be a threat. You support an administration that freely tries to censor negative opinions and keep them from being expressed despite our Constitutional right to free speech. You support an administration that has illegaly invaded a sovereign country without the permission of the UN and that, despite professions of bringing democracy to the region, will only allow it's chosen candidate to be elected and no other (in other words, we're installing a puppet government just like we did in Afghanistan).
By , at
9:31 AM
Memo to liberal democrats trying to delude yourselves into thinking that this election was "stolen" or somehow unfair -- GROW UP! Your guy lost. It wasn't a close loss either, the popular vote margin is well over 3.5 million.
Is is possible that some of the new electronic voting machines were screwed up a bit? Absolutely. But if you want to take a hard look at Ohio machines, then we need to take look at the machines in Pennsylvania, (where four machines magically turned up with 1500 votes already on them in some heavily democrat areas) and every where else.
Guess what? If you did that, you'd still fidn that President Bush won. Deal with it. Move to Canada if you're so freaked out, and go find out what government-run health care is really like. Better yet, why don't you try figuring out how your party screwed up and lost touch with a majority of America.
Or just whine about how the Evil Republicans and Big Business stole the election by duping Americans into voting for President Bush, and consign your party to a generation of being in the minority.
By , at
9:48 AM
This comic has indeed gone down hill fast. Less politics please. Come up with your own material for the plot instead of depending on politics. No one cares anymore. The election is thankfully over.
By , at
9:51 AM
As sad as I am to see Bush back in office again, I don't believe he "cheated" this time around. Maybe the world would have been a better place if things went better in 00 but this election the Democrats gave to Bush. In selecting John Kerry as their man in the primarys, they made a huge mistake. Just about anyone would have been better to run aginst Bush than Kerry, and although I am not a huge fan of Kerry I did vote for him because I live in a state that has already lost over 200,000 jobs in Bush's first administration. Sadly it's over and we are stuck with the chimp for 4 more years but we should all move on and try to enjoy things like web comics such as this and just forget about the election... too late to change anything now
By , at
9:56 AM
"Democracy is the worst political system in the world. Except everything else"
I think the same sort of thing applies to Kerry. He was the worst person to run against Bush, except for everyone else that was trying to run against him. I honestly didn't like Dean too much (Instinctual thing there) and I identified with Kerry's massachutes pompus attitude. I like guys that know stuff because they had the money to know stuff! But that's besides the point. Point is, I don't think anyone else that was running could have done any better, and so far I haven't seen anything to like Libramen or the others either (the reason why I want him to run in 2008 with Jon Stewart is totally unrelated).
Ultimately, you're sometimes forced to vote between a giant douchebag and a turd sandwhich. My agenda in 2008 is that we can instead vote between two jews and a moderate republican/black guy ticket.
By , at
10:08 AM
7:05: Sweetheart, heritage does not necessarily denote religion. Many people born with Jewish lineage do not claim it as their religion. I am very much aware of Kerry's heritage (his grandfather, Fritz Khone, later Frederick Kerry) and did not mention it because I thought it was generally understood that Jewish people aren't always Jewish and don't have Jewish loyalties. Apparently I was wrong.
8:00: And since when has fighting for equality become a "political correctness" issue? I don't believe, in 1954 during Brown vs School Board, that supporters of Strom Thurmond were considered "PC pushers". And yes, it is the same thing. People fighting for equality yet again.
9:04: The neutral ticket totally separates the mindsets of extreme right and left, of which there are many of both in this country. Should they be underrepresented in a democracy?
9:31: Poor grammar and spelling generally set off warning bells to just as a societal impulse rather than personal preferences. A quick spell-check in Microsoft Word or human proofreader is not going to hurt anyone.
9:48: Wow, what? 3.8 million in an election of just under 120 million votes is not not a large margin. The margin is 120:4. There is no mandate here, because a mandate requires that the opposition not have strong support as well. And last time I checked, sweetheart, Kerry's supporters can be just as rabid as Bush's.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
10:14 AM
Oh, one thing:
Kerry was not the wrong choice of candidate. He is an excellent debater, has always had a history of finishing his elections strong, has a twenty-five year relatively consistent senate record (more than any other's), and decorated war experience to flaunt.
The Republican "Speech Response Team", or "Truth Squad", widely regarded on both sides as vicious attack machine, would have ripped anyone else to shreds as well, and Kerry had the most solid record to defend of all the primary candidates. You all saw the saw how they attempted to destroy Edwards after he was picked, basing arguments on his lack of experience and youth.
The sheer thought that people actually voted in record turnout for someone portrayed as an extreme liberal (though whether he is is contested) is simply astonishing.
Think about it. This man got more votes than Ronald Reagan.
There were just "key moral wedge issues" this year that really decided the vote. No one did anything "wrong".
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
10:21 AM
'I personally would like to know how many abortions are done for lifethreatening reasons and how many are done as a cheap way out of being responsible for a new life.'
And if they are, so what? Mistakes which can be fixed should. How many 16 year olds do you want to see on welfare or hooking on the street because they got knocked up. My answer is none.
'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness'
And yet you have a voting system designed to screw people over. That's really equality and democracy? Wow, does my oxford dictionary have those definitions wrong. Not to mention saying that if you don't want to marry the way society wants you to, "win people over with your normalness", you shouldn't be allowed to because it's against *someone else's morals*.
'Deal with it. Move to Canada if you're so freaked out, and go find out what government-run health care is really like.'
I concur. Why? Because I am Canadian. We are not a perfect country, that's impossible, but we are a good nation which tries to take care of its people and play nice with it's neighbors even halfway around the world. The US under Bush has not prospered as a country or as a world power for the last four years and I have seen no indication that the next four will be any better.
The man is an ignorant, ineloquent, war monger whose party has so strangled the 'democratic' process ( although imho it can hardly be called that without any sembelance of conformity or balances and checks present) that he now controls two of the three major forms of your government and may shortly control the third. I had previously said America might be a nice place to visit, but I wasn't sure I wanted to live there, but now I'm not even sure its worth visiting.
By , at
10:43 AM
To Republicans and others: shut up about shutting up. You can't possibly believe that you're in the right simply because you won. It just means more of you are wrong. If you don't have anything else to say than "shut up the end result shows that we were right" then get off the net. If, however, you have points/arguments/complaints that don't deal with people shutting up (this is a Blog, after all, you're meant to express your opinions on it), feel free.
To foreigners: I highly sympathize with you. You people have just as much interest in the outcome of our election (because it will affect you too, given the disproportionat power the U.S. has), but far less control. I wish that I had grown up in Canada or New Zealand or somewhere else so that I didn't have to be part of it...but as I'm an American who considers it my responsibility to try to help as much as I can (before half my country decides to blow up the world because God says so), I need to stay here.
Please don't consider all Americans stupid and immoral. Bush won, but not by a landslide...he had to fight those of us who see him for what he is.
And to those non-Americans who call us Dems pathetic because we didn't win: we tried our ****ing hardest, but sometimes it just isn't enough. We'll keep trying...but we could use *your* support as well.
If we're not all dead because of the jihad Bush's started.
"We should not give loaded guns to children, for they are incitable and quick to experiment."
By , at
11:29 AM
Oh and about the tax thing...
Taxes are not evil. Without government support, people can be treated unfairly by those with money.
Don't be naive in thinking that big businesses wouldn't turn into a mafia organization if not for the government's regulations.
Whether you believe it or not, the government does a lot for you. It's your obligation to help it continue to do what it can to make sure *all* of its people have a chance at a good life.
It's an attempt to fight greed.
By , at
11:33 AM
As far as the question is Bush a good choice for president, i give one peice of evidence: "Most of our exports come from other countries". Duh shit sherlock. I dont frankly care whether he won lgetimatly or not, goddamn that man needs to be shot out of misery for the poor damned fool
By , at
11:37 AM
A great article from bushflash.com....
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IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN COMING HERE TO GLOAT...
...save your breath
Bush may have won...but you lost.
Here's why:
When overtime pay is eliminated, it won't just be terminated for liberals. You're going to lose yours, as well.
You're going to have to live in the same polluted America as the rest of us.
When the next terrorist attack hits us -- and it will -- the al-Qaeda isn't just going to target Democrats only.
When Social Security goes bankrupt, there won't be any exceptions made for Bush supporters.
The drug companies aren't going to cut Republican seniors any slack with the new Medicare prescription-drug plan either Your folks will also have their coverage changed arbitrarily whenever Merck, Pfizer, et al. feel like it.
( And they won't have any better access to cheaper pharmaceuticals from Canada than anyone else. )
Body armor and armored vehicles in Iraq are not going to doled on the basis of political leanings.
Bottom line, you're in the same leaky lifeboat as the rest of us -- you just don't know it yet.
Except in one regard.
Your kids aren't going to be able to afford college tuition any more than ours...and when the bill for these record deficits falls due, they're going to have to pay up same as everyone else.
And that's not even mentioning the possibility of a draft.
And when they realized that they'll never be able to have a lifestyle as good as yours...all because you wanted to feel pumped about having 'your' guy in office and have yourself a liberal-bashing party, right here, right now...they will turn on you with vengeance.
Either that...or guess who's gonna end up supporting them?
Most likely, both of the above. If Bush does get a second term, you'd better be prepared to have your grown kids living with you and hating you at the same time.
And that is gonna hurt you like you don't wanna know.
That's the difference, guys. Our kids are gonna know that at least we cared enough about their future to fight to try and fight for it.
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By , at
11:47 AM
I am glad George Bush won the election. Socialism has yet again been defeated.
FASCISM FORWARD!
www.americanfascistmovement.com
By , at
11:53 AM
I swear to Bush's god, you have to be the dumbest liberal loser on the planet. Good thing you're kind of funny. You will never get laid and you're too naive to do anything but draw cartoons.
Your boy lost, and you hero Michael Moore is the reason. Stick that in your three-ton dinner sandwich and eat it.
By , at
12:04 PM
...How the fuck did Michael Moore cost Kerry the election?
The last time I checked, Bush won on basis of American perception of morality. It's a factor of millions of factors, so please, shut the hell up unless you know what you're talking about.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
12:14 PM
Oh, but if you do know what you're talking about, then don't just come in here and spout it like an idiot. State your argument and cite sources.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
12:18 PM
Puh-leez man! You should know darn well that the exit polls don't mean jack. And just take a look at any of the maps of the US voting records. A HUGE amount of Red, a few Blue. The people have spoken, Bush won. Get over it. This of course doesn't mean you have to be happy about it, but you had your chance, and the Democratic party failed. You know why? Because Bush can appeal to the common folk. Kerry was inexperienced, rich, and not very good at relating to the majority of the voters that are the common folk. And the events in 2000? I won't deny that Bush lost the popular vote then, thats a proven fact. HOWEVER, he won the electoral votes fair and square, and that was enough. The only reason why it seemed like Bush cheated is because Al Gore made such a big deal out of a little difference in the voting record. Frankly, I'm surprised that Kerry didn't pull the same stunt, but as a Conservative I'm proud of him for not putting the country though that hell again. When Kerry called the election, it was Ohio that was the final swing state, and even though all the precincts weren't in, he would have had to win a minimum of 95% of those remaining precincts to claim victory. Kerry realized that this wasn't going to happen, so he wisely chose to give up before it got too hectic and before we went down the road that Gore led us in 2000. As you said, "that's all I have to say about that." >D
By , at
12:24 PM
To 11:29 -- "You can't possibly believe that you're in the right simply because you won."
That statement is essentially correct. I'd believe I was right even if my guy had lost. Heck, in my state (Washington), my party did lose most of the major races. Does that mean I'm wrong? Well, it probably does to you, but it doesn't change my mind. I and my party just need to work harder to convince more people to come and see things our way.
To 11:47 -- I'd consider your list to be a perfect example what's wrong with certain segments of liberalism: it's 95% hyperbole and distortion, mixed with 5% fact. For example, maybe democrats would start doing better if you told the truth about Social Security. Instead of telling senior citizens that Evil Republicans want to take away Social Security and put old folks in cardboard boxes, tell the truth that democrats think Big Government is the best way to support people after retirement, while republicans think that privatization and personal choice are the best options. Less vitriolic rehetoric, more facts.
Oh, and with regards to the draft: there was a resolution (HR 163) that went through Congress in the last session which would have reinstated the draft. It was sponsored by two democrats -- one of whom was Charles B. Rangel. The bill was voted down 402 to 2.
By Face it Dems -- You Lost, at
12:25 PM
12:24: Sweetheart, geographical maps don't mean jack unless it's a population map as well. One Blue county in Los Angeles has twice as many residents as the entire Red state of Wyoming. Please refrain from acting like an asshat.
I generally try to remain partisan and polite, but the mass of people coming in here and saying "he lost, get over it" while simultaneously insulting the very people you claim to be insulting you is really starting to piss me off.
Now only a select few are actually contesting Bush's victory. The majority of Kerry's supporters have accepted it, but that doesn't mean they have to be happy about it. Would you just simply move on if Bush had lost his presidency only days before?
However, multitudes of information from 2000 show that there were far too many errors (whether foul play or simply clerical) to simply call George Bush's victory totally ligitimate.
Take, for instance, the tens of thousands of votes lost when the Diebold memory cards from primarily Democrat Volusia and Orange counties were lost, counting every vote towards Bush. Even further are Katherine Harris' felon purge lists, which prevented people whose names vaguely resembled felons from other states from voting. Then we have the many newsletters sent to black communities telling them to go out and vote for Gore on November 6th. The election was, of course, November 5th.
I can cite sources and examples all day, if you want me to.
Whether you want to accept the facts or not, 2000 was extremely shady. Many Republicans have admitted to this, perhaps you should as well.
12:25: That bill you speak of, story originally broken by the Michigan Daily, is cited to be written up by the two Democrats as an attention-getter to draw attention to the reality of a draft being reinstated.
Fact-checking is fun.
Also, I believe you should relook your take on the Republican party as "conservative". The only real conservative movement the party has made are current Social Security overhaul and tax plan.
Everything else, such as adding a "Department of Homeland Security", the Patriot Act, the Federal Marriage Amendment, and invading Iraq are clearly liberal stances. You know, the whole larger government, more regulations thing, non-isolationist thing.
Liberal =/= politically correct communist and I really wish asshats would stop thinking it does.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
2:24 PM
Oh, and if you can prove me wrong, go for it. Google's a fun little thing and I like a good debate.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
2:30 PM
I am with Just Face It You Lost.
But I'm not interested in polotics right now. After all, poly - tic(k)s could mean many blood sucking insects.
But some one really pissed me off earlier.
" morality is subjective "
That is just not right. That doesn't mean I don't respect you, but that is unfounded liberal nonsense. Morality cannot be subjective. If it was I could beleive it is my moral right to kill you right now. But its not, and killing a human without that person being a danger to the lives of others is just wrong. You are saying Hitler, terrorists and Stalin are not guilty of any crimes. Morality is objective, but allows for the circumstances to make exceptionas. like self-defense. Moral relativism (what's right for me is right for me; what's right for you is right for you) is the opposite of civilization's goal of a commom good.
Also some pro-abortion stuff I care to refute back there. Biologically, the child's life begins when the gametes join to form the zygote in the uterus. The child is now an independant self that relies on the mother for nourishment like any child up to... say... 18. Also, officially, Bush's paltform allows for cases of rape, incest, and a risk to the mother's life. (not that she's guaranteed to survive the procedure in many clinics anyway) Even though its arguable that the innocent child should not have to die so the irresponsible mother can go out and do whatever the hell she wants, such as get herself in that situation agoin, but I don't say that.
I could go on but I really stop caring when I know the people I'm arguing against don't even look at what the other side has to say, and I'm sorry if that offends anyone.
By , at
2:30 PM
Reality check time:
The child is now an independant self that relies on the mother for nourishment
Actually, if the child relies on the mother, then it is not independent, now is it? That is why the debate is so heated; the fetus is a fetus and cannot under any circumstances survive outside the uterus because it does not yet possess the means to even breathe. Whether or not either side is true, do everyone a favour and keep the actual reason for the debate in mind instead of biased rhetoric.
Also, your Bush claim is wrong. He has stated it in speeches and addresses, but the recent partial-birth banning legislation to pass through Congress and get signed by Bush carried nothing about the mother's condition; it was an outright ban.
Once again, fact-checking is fun.
By Kinneas - Your Friendly Reality Check, at
2:37 PM
I said earlier that I beleive Kerry is not Catholic and I'd like to verify myself. Kerry can call himself Catholic and I know plenty of people who have been to a Catholic school who basically hold his way. They are not really Catholic because he excommunicated himself basically. He holds many stances oppesed to fundamental Catholicism (I read a lot, including the Catechism). Abortion and the de-sanctification of marriage being among them.
By , at
2:38 PM
The fetus is a human. It has its own ability to feel and act. Just because a child could not survive without someone to care for it doesn't mean we have the right to kill it because we want to run away from the responsibility of taking care of someone. Say you were seriously wounded and had no way of surviving without someone helping you, but you would only need nine months to be fully healed.